ev Elektromobilnost

[jures]

pred 14 urami je FuManchu napisal:

Ne  maram pa če mi ga šenka kitajc...

Men ni slab sam cena pa dej ne no prosim

[Boss]

Ma kdo pri zdravi pameti daje kitajskemu sranju še subvencije. To je skregano z zdravo pametjo.

[Mraušk Mčk]

Država Slovenija bo dala kitajskemu sranju 40 miljonov subvencije - novi električni Twingo. 

[godlike]

Hmmm, kdaj pa je Renaulta kupil kitajc?

Sem kaj zamudil?

[Jest]

pred 16 minutami je godlike napisal:

Hmmm, kdaj pa je Renaulta kupil kitajc?

Sem kaj zamudil?

 

Saj ni nujno, da jih kupi kitajc... Električni Twingo je plod razvoja s kitajskim partnerjem ... 

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/renault-develop-twingos-priced-under-20000-euros-with-chinese-partner-2024-05-30/

 

 

Renault brings a Chinese partner on board for electric Twingo - electrive.com

WWW.ELECTRIVE.COM

---

Renault says it is partnering with a Chinese engineering firm to develop its upcoming electric Twingo. The goal is to create a Twingo with a base price of less than 20,000 euros.

Renault will develop new electric Twingo with Chinese partner

WWW.AUTONEWS.COM

---

Renault will develop its sub-€20,000 battery-powered Twingo city car with a Chinese engineering company. Earlier talks to partner with VW on the car collapsed.

 

...

[Boss]

pred 59 minutami je Bini napisal:

Za "normalno" vožnjo bi ga imel za po kolesarskih poteh tu okoli do Šentjurja in mogoče do Celja, da ne vžigam avta za 3,4km.Fino pa bi bilo, da zdrži do Celja in nazaj, če se tako odločim. Nekaj sem že gledal a bi vseeno mogoče imel kdo kak dober predlog ali nasvet kaj bi bilo najboljše kupit, ker tega dreka je kolikor hočeš... Kolo pa tako imam za daljše fure. 😉

 

Pocen tega ni... namreč kar je poceni je čisto kitajsko sranje.

[skritikrt]

Spet mrtvi🙄...takoj zgoreli🥺

 

 

[etcho]

Prvo generacijo Mazdinega kabrioleta lahko poganja tudi elektrika

WWW.AVTOMANIJA.COM

---

Lastniki Mazde MX-5 prve generacije lahko zdaj svoj avto predelajo v električno vozilo. 

 

[g.Wankel]

Bogoskrunstvo!

[Boss]

Tolk je drugih brezveznih avtov za dat na EV teli gredo pa Miato... da se jim roke posušijo.

[skritikrt]

Adijo pamet...odisejada z Škodo se nadaljuje😲

 

 

[Agerg]

Dober zapis iz LinkedIn-a. Zajebano bo, glede na to kdo nam je konkurenca in kakšnega standarda smo se navadili.

 

Citat

Quo Vadis European Auto Industry?

 

Anders Nystrom

Advisor, Board Member

December 9, 2024

 

Folks, having read through some of the posts that are coming through the social (and not so social) media feeds on the subject matter, I had to add my 10 cents to the debate. The reason I feel called to do so is that I worry about the misunderstandings, disinformation and sometimes plain lies that are being conveyed relative to the future of the industry. One can speculate whether it’s by ignorance, or if it’s deliberate. It’s a cruel world with a raging trade war and, like in other wars, truth tends to be the first victim. In some cases, the messages I read bear the fingerprints of unfriendly powers, who wish their doom-and-gloom prophecies will become self-fulfilling.

 

De-bunking the bankruptcy myth

To start: The entire European auto industry is NOT about to go bankrupt! At least not in the near term. Despite over-investment in BEV technologies that don’t sell, recent revenue drops, mounting inventory, and EU politicians that unintelligently are trying their best to kill off the very industry that still is the backbone of the European economy, the automakers are surprisingly healthy financially.

To back that up: Even VW, who right now tends to be the poster child for everything gone wrong in the European auto industry, reports very healthy cash flows and an even healthier liquidity position. And, as you may know, it’s the shortage of cash, not the shortage of attractive BEV’s that makes companies go bankrupt. VW margins are uninspiring but no worse than what has been normal in the past.

Stellantis, who has caught a lot of press lately due to its leadership turmoil, reports very survivable margins with an EBIT of 6.6% (9.9% adjusted) for the first half of 2024, and while that may seem pale to someone who is used to non-vehicle related businesses, it’s actually relatively good. A car OEM rarely reaches above 8% even in a good year. Their net cash flow is less than a year ago on the back of rising inventories but still comfortably positive. And this is the OEM who most flagrantly ignored the electrification trend, with perhaps the worst brand management and the most watered-down product offer in the Western hemisphere right now. But anywhere close to bankruptcy they are not!

I could go on. Mercedes Group reported lower margins in Q3 than a year ago but that’s from levels that were exceptionally high, and net cash flow is healthy. Volvo Cars margins increased in Q3 over last year and financial performance is better than what we have seen consistently from them, and if the (struggling) Chinese owners can refrain from tapping the company for too much dividend, they will also have the muscles to take on the future.

If you want to look for near-bankrupt companies in the European auto industry, you need to look to the tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers, which nobody is talking or writing about. Much of the R&D spend and fixed asset investments connected to electrification have been born by the suppliers. Due to a combination of absent volume growth, already drained liquidity since the pandemic, soaring cost of labour and materials, with little to no compensation from the OEM’s, here’s where you will see the real crisis in the near term. And, yes, that will also be costly for the OEM’s who, in many cases, will have to bail out suppliers they are depending on. But will it sink the entire industry ship? No!

Dealers are also increasingly struggling but not from Chinese competition but from changes in how consumers buy cars and OEM’s prefer to distribute them.

 

Is there a problem? Yes!

So, is all well then and nothing to worry about? Of course not! The European auto industry is facing monumental challenges in the years to come. Some are generated by self-destructive policies introduced by sloppy and populistic politicians in Brussels, some by militant and very short-sighted (mostly German) trade unions, but many are also home cooked in the board rooms of the industry itself. Let’s start with the latter.

The sideline experts who blame the European auto industry for being slow adopters of electrification are mostly right. Even if there were advanced BEV concept cars and engineering studies already 20 years ago, of which I had the pleasure of being involved in some, real BEV offers didn’t hit showrooms until after Tesla had already taken top spot for top selling models. Political pressure in the form of a 2035 ban on ICE’s and aggressive fleet CO2 legislation was obviously necessary for OEM leaders to seriously start kicking engineering butts to force credible BEV adds to the model line-up. Even worse, battery technology, which is the make-or-break factor for BEV success wasn’t seen as critical until very recently, and maybe this is the biggest tragedy of all. A couple of successful Northvolts would have made the Chinese battery leash a little longer. But we all know that Northvolt was everything but a success, and Europe stands without a large-scale regional battery production. Shame on us.

So, here we are. Finally, a line-up of European made BEV’s is actually available. You can buy a European made BEV in any segment. But technologically, they are like yesterday’s fish. They are mostly built on ICE intended platforms and, thus, the value-to-cost ratio is bad, making them uncompetitive. ICE’s with or without hybridization, are still the bread and butter for most European automakers and that’s where they make the money.

According to a recent study by UBS, the VW ID.3 is 27% more expensive to make than the BYD Seal, despite that the Seal has more functionality and content, and is undoubtedly better looking, and has a higher sticker price than the ID.3. We can bet every European OEM CEO would die to have a Seal equivalent in their line-up today.

But let’s ask ourselves the question what would have happened if the European OEM’s had been faster, let’s say two years faster, and shunned ICE development, doubled up on BEV engineering and capacity investments and started scrapping engine plants several years ago, where would they have been today? Well, chances are, they would have been a lot worse. I’ll explain why.

Part of the issue is outlined in the famous Draghi report. When the EU embarked on its kill-the-ICE journey, the politicians looked at the OEM’s, telling them to go fix the CO2 problem by replacing ICE’s with electric powertrains. In 2035 it will be game over for ICE’s anyway. Better hurry up! Then they all went back to sleep in Brussels. They totally and completely ignored the fact that transportation, both manufacturing and operation of vehicles is a very complex eco-system that has developed over 100+ years. And it doesn’t change overnight because Ursula von der Leyen tells it to. Actually, much of that eco-system, for instance provision of competitively priced and sufficiently available electricity, can only be changed through government action. But governments had their heads up their a***s. And this part of the equation happens to be, by all means, the restricting factor for BEV sales in Europe, unless you want to throw tons of government funded purchase incentives at it, which is unsustainable and unfair in any case. Consumers aren’t stupid. They buy what makes sense and right now, judging from the BEV market share, buying a BEV makes sense for about 15% of car consumers in Europe. Not because of unavailability of BEV’s, not even of European made BEV’s, but because of the business case for buying one. For the Chinese to eat into that 15% isn’t exactly wiping the Europeans off their own map.

The European auto industry is currently suffering from under-utilization of BEV capacity. (BtW, so are the Chinese.) Tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers are the ones that are suffering, by far, the most. What if those investments were twice as big and what if ICE capacities had been undone the same way politicians have scrapped electrical power capacity? Then, I am convinced, we would have had a real financial crisis in the European auto industry today. Thankfully, the slow adoption of the all-electric paradigm seems to have saved the backbone of the European economy this time.

Looking forward, it’s a completely different story! The migration from ICEV to BEV is there. What we are experiencing now is a temporary drop in the curve. Thankfully, that drop is well-timed for the Europeans and gives them a bit of breathing space to rally the troops and start closing the gap to the Chinese. Both at the battery level, and complete vehicle level. And the house is on fire. A lot has to change to have a fighting chance to save it! And here’s my take on what needs to change:

 

What’s critical to future success

 

1.        Speed

Time to market has been a buzz expression for decades but, to be honest, lead times to bring new product to market by European OEM’s is still pretty much the same today as in the 1980’s, if it involves any significant change to mechanical or digital architecture. Ambitions can be high but reality often gets in the way. Taking 4-5 years from program kick-off to start of production may have been survivable before but not anymore, when battery chemistries, ADAS enabling sensor tech, HMI expectations etc etc develops quicker than you can summon a cross functional meeting in Europe. New bumper facias or a new upholstery in a new nuance of grey don’t sell cars anymore. New technology does.

 

2.        Ditch the platform paradigm

To achieve the speed, the traditional platform thinking which was taught from Toyota decades ago and that is still religion among European OEM’s to this day, has to go! To design chassis, under-body structure, electrical/digital architecture and powertrain, freeze it for 7-10 years and give the top hat 2-3 freshening cycles will not work. Tesla turned this thinking upside down and has kept the A surfaces, the interior and exterior trim the same and then constantly changed the “unchangeable”; chassis, software, under-body structures and powertrain to incorporate new technology. And they do it fast, and it works! By constantly introducing significant running changes, they also eliminate risk. A good example is the mega-castings which were done as a running mid-cycle change, with massive cost advantages, while having the incumbent steel structure as a fallback. Brilliant! But unthinkable with the traditional platform mindset.

After years as a supplier to OEM’s in all parts of the world, I can testify to the fundamentally different mindsets of automakers winning market share today, and those who lose. When presenting new value-add technology to the winners, the first question is “how fast can you deliver this?” And they will almost always push for even faster introduction. The Chinese are exceptionally good with this. When doing the same to traditional European OEM’s, the answer is often “no, we have frozen the platform design, come back in 5 years when we have a change window”. I have myself been subscribing to that exact mindset during my OEM career. But we have to realize that it’s obsolete and potentially lethal in the current competitive environment. This is largely a culture change, which is why it is so difficult. The people who have been paid to say no all their lives, now have to be motivated to say yes and produce a plan that delivers.

 

3.        Control the battery

The battery of a BEV corresponds to about 40% of the total vehicle cost and is, apart from the infotainment system, what sets one BEV apart from the other, much like the engines have done for ICE cars up until now. To not control the innovations, the chemical secrets to the performance characteristics, and the delicate manufacturing processes of this paramount element of the car is not a good place to be. Most Chinese automakers don’t control it either, to be fair, since they too have outsourced it to the likes of BYD and CATL. But to be so out of control as the Europeans are today will shackle them to a guaranteed uncompetitive 40% of the material cost and getting new technology last, until the industry, politics and academia in Europe put their heads together and decide to take control. For a while, normally angry competitors will have to hold their fire and cooperate. The industry has proven before that they can cooperate, like when natural disasters strike the supply chain, and this should be treated like one of those moments.

 

4.        Sweat

Here’s where it becomes even more difficult. The entire Western society has to realize that competition is no longer next door. Working for a car company in Cologne, does no longer mean that competition has license plates beginning with WOB and with a similar lifestyle and economic situation. No, in addition to all the factors mentioned above, competition is now in a place where engineers work 80 hours per week, get heavily rewarded for success and heavily penalized for under-performance, and are producing thousands of patents each year in areas crucial to BEV attractiveness. Where factory workers earn a fraction of their equivalents in the free world and are disappointed if not given the chance to work overtime to earn more money. Competition also has in excess of 50% over-capacity in their manufacturing plants, and a government that have handed out big checks for tooling and equipment investments, and pushing OEM’s hard to export their products.

How do we make up for that difference? I don’t know. In the short term, maybe trade barriers like the ones implemented by the EU will help somewhat. But it’s not more than a band aid on a splintered femur. Ultimately, we have to call in the surgeon. And chances are that the treatment and recovery will be painful.

We are only starting to scratch the surface of what’s needed to bring Europe as a continent back to strength, and it’s not just an auto industry problem. What it will take is an unknown right now but I know that the solution is definitely not an 8% annual pay increase while going to 27-hour work weeks!

 

It can be done

Just like Europe managed to re-build itself after half a decade of wars, we can do this. There is still time, while European OEM’s, contrary to troll disinformation, have healthy profits and balance sheets. The war is not lost and we should not roll over and sell our auto industry to the Chinese, as suggested by some of the same trolls.

But trade unions, industry and politicians have to come together to prevent de-industrialization of the West. And it’s not going to come without sacrifice on our part. Let’s be honest about that!

Remember, the auto industry is still the backbone of the European economy. Without it, Europe as we know it will quickly cease to exist. It’s not like when shipyards got shut down in the 70’s and replaced through creative destruction. Europe has nothing to replace the auto industry with. But only with that realization will we be willing to make the right choices.

 

 

[Slivka]

No, igračke so pa fajne, to jim je treba priznat...

 

Pogled iz zraka: pri Komendi unikaten šov z avtomobili #video

SIOL.NET

---

V Komendi se je zbralo šestdeset lastnikov Teslinih avtomobilov, ki so v sklopu mednarodno usklajenega dogodka pripravili zanimiv nočni šov. Pogled iz zraka je bil tokrat res nekaj posebnega.

 

[dvorjan]

Da ne bo samo evropska antipropaganda ...

 

Anketirali so 23.000 lastnikov EV - 92 % bi se jih ponovno odločilo za nakup EV. To menda pove vse.

 

https://carbuzz.com/92-percent-of-ev-drivers-will-never-go-back-study/

[NevLado]

pred 2 urama je dvorjan napisal:

Da ne bo samo evropska antipropaganda ...

 

Anketirali so 23.000 lastnikov EV - 92 % bi se jih ponovno odločilo za nakup EV. To menda pove vse.

 

https://carbuzz.com/92-percent-of-ev-drivers-will-never-go-back-study/

Bom namesto Alexa napisal ker tu se oba strinjava - naj jih uprašajo po 10ih letih lastništva

[DonFelipe]

Na koncu se bo plesalo :

 

[Boss]

pred 3 urami je dvorjan napisal:

Da ne bo samo evropska antipropaganda ...

 

Anketirali so 23.000 lastnikov EV - 92 % bi se jih ponovno odločilo za nakup EV. To menda pove vse.

 

https://carbuzz.com/92-percent-of-ev-drivers-will-never-go-back-study/

 

Ne bom odgovarjal a je to propaganda, ampak poglej kdo je naročil in saj veš raziskave se da naredit po želji naročnika. Bolj je treba gledat realne podatke, zakaj prodaja EV-jev ne steče oziroma se marsikje celo zmanjšuje. Če bi bilo zadovoljstvo res 92% bi morale biti prodajne številke EVjev veliko bolj ugodne.

 

Je pa res tako, kot pravi @NevLado, največ EV-jev se je prodalo v zadnjih 4-5 letih in v veliki večini so še v rokah prvih lastnikov. Ko bo treba to spravit v prodajo in ko bodo ugotovili, da je padec cene rabljenega precej strahovit in da bodo morali dodati še veliko za novega bo marsikoga zabolela glava. Ker so več ali manj to novi avti, nekih strašnih popravil sploh še ne bi smelo biti zato veliko lastnikov EV-jev, ki so vsajmalo premislili pred nakupom bi morali biti še zadovoljni. Kaj pa po 10 letih? EV-ji so točno tisto kar v agendi "trajnostnega" ne sme biti.

 

Trajnostno pomeni, da ni panike imeti stvar tudi 20 let z relativno nizkimi stroški popravil. Glede na spremembe v razvoju, za EV-ja čez 10 let ne boš mogel dobiti rezervne baterije, četudi bi bil pripravljen jo kupit. Za ICE danes še vedno dobiš rezervni del za skoraj vsak avto iz leta 2004.

 

Resno vprašanje... kolk vas je pripravljeno dat za EV-ja 50k€ in po 10 letih imet EV-ja s prodajno ceno blizu 0€?

[Alex]

pred 8 urami je Boss napisal:

 

Ne bom odgovarjal a je to propaganda, ampak poglej kdo je naročil in saj veš raziskave se da naredit po želji naročnika. Bolj je treba gledat realne podatke, zakaj prodaja EV-jev ne steče oziroma se marsikje celo zmanjšuje. Če bi bilo zadovoljstvo res 92% bi morale biti prodajne številke EVjev veliko bolj ugodne.

 

Je pa res tako, kot pravi @NevLado, največ EV-jev se je prodalo v zadnjih 4-5 letih in v veliki večini so še v rokah prvih lastnikov. Ko bo treba to spravit v prodajo in ko bodo ugotovili, da je padec cene rabljenega precej strahovit in da bodo morali dodati še veliko za novega bo marsikoga zabolela glava. Ker so več ali manj to novi avti, nekih strašnih popravil sploh še ne bi smelo biti zato veliko lastnikov EV-jev, ki so vsajmalo premislili pred nakupom bi morali biti še zadovoljni. Kaj pa po 10 letih? EV-ji so točno tisto kar v agendi "trajnostnega" ne sme biti.

 

Trajnostno pomeni, da ni panike imeti stvar tudi 20 let z relativno nizkimi stroški popravil. Glede na spremembe v razvoju, za EV-ja čez 10 let ne boš mogel dobiti rezervne baterije, četudi bi bil pripravljen jo kupit. Za ICE danes še vedno dobiš rezervni del za skoraj vsak avto iz leta 2004.

 

Resno vprašanje... kolk vas je pripravljeno dat za EV-ja 50k€ in po 10 letih imet EV-ja s prodajno ceno blizu 0€?

Tega, ki kupi EV ne bo bolela glava, ko bo prodajal svojega starega. Ker ga ni niti, ko je drago plačeval novega. 

Pač tisti, ki je zadovoljen z EV (in teh ni malo) bo dodal razliko do novega. 

Če bi imel sam hišo z sončno elektrarno bi takoj kupil EV. Vožnja z njimi je super. 

[ignacij]

Hišna sončna elektrarna....jaz jo imam pa mi ne bi dosti koristila če bi imel EV. Zakaj? Imam 11kw in mi zasede celo streho, ler imam se strešna okna, pridela pa mi cca. 12500 kwh na leto, porabim pa jih cca. 12000 kwh na leto. Torej mi ne ostane skoraj nič viška.

 

Da bi zadostil svojim potrebam bi rabil približno 7000 kwh ur viška na leto, ki bi ga plačeval tako kot vsi ostali.

 

Hočem povedati, da moraš fajn predimenzionirati elektrarno, da lahko pokriješ potrebe EV, kar pa pomeni dražja investicija v kolikor sploh imaš prostor, dražja omrežnina pa še tveganje, kaj če se EV ne primejo pa boš imel letno 7000 kwh viška in ne boš imel z njimi kaj početi.

[godlike]

pred 14 urami je Boss napisal:

Je pa res tako, kot pravi @NevLado, največ EV-jev se je prodalo v zadnjih 4-5 letih in v veliki večini so še v rokah prvih lastnikov. Ko bo treba to spravit v prodajo in ko bodo ugotovili, da je padec cene rabljenega precej strahovit in da bodo morali dodati še veliko za novega bo marsikoga zabolela glava. Ker so več ali manj to novi avti, nekih strašnih popravil sploh še ne bi smelo biti zato veliko lastnikov EV-jev, ki so vsajmalo premislili pred nakupom bi morali biti še zadovoljni. Kaj pa po 10 letih? EV-ji so točno tisto kar v agendi "trajnostnega" ne sme biti.

Kolega kupil testni id.3, ga po minimalni dobi, ko ga je lahko prodal (zaradi ekosklada prej ni smel) prodal in kupil Teslo 3. Še vedno zadovoljen z EV-ji.

Popravljeno nedelja ob 12:48 od godlike

[Boss]

pred 5 urami je godlike napisal:

Kolega kupil testni id.3, ga po minimalni dobi, ko ga je lahko prodal (zaradi ekosklada prej ni smel) prodal in kupil Teslo 3. Še vedno zadovoljen z EV-ji.

 

Če navajaš omenjeno potem ta EV jedva, da je starejši od dveh let. Pri takem težav sploh ne bi še smelo biti in je logično, da slabih izkušenj še ni vsaj kar se tiče vzdržljivosti avtomobila. Drugo vprašanje pa je ali je tako počenjanje stroškovno smiselno. Padci cen rabljenih so veliki.

 

Ampak kakorkoli... tvoj kolega se s takim početjem ne bo soočal s težavami, ki jih povzroča daljše lastništvo bo pa seveda za ta "luksuz" plačeval kar veliko ceno.

[Alex]

pred 35 minutami je Boss napisal:

 

Če navajaš omenjeno potem ta EV jedva, da je starejši od dveh let. Pri takem težav sploh ne bi še smelo biti in je logično, da slabih izkušenj še ni vsaj kar se tiče vzdržljivosti avtomobila. Drugo vprašanje pa je ali je tako počenjanje stroškovno smiselno. Padci cen rabljenih so veliki.

 

Ampak kakorkoli... tvoj kolega se s takim početjem ne bo soočal s težavami, ki jih povzroča daljše lastništvo bo pa seveda za ta "luksuz" plačeval kar veliko ceno.

A ni enako z mazdami in dizelskimi motorji? Baje, da je z njimi  en kup težav in ko jo prodajaš, jo moraš skoraj šenkati. Tako, da ni neke razlike. 

Tudi nova cx60 stane preko 50 K€, kar je občutno preveč in je tam-tam z kakim dobrim EV. Po treh letih ko boš prodal za 30 K€. 

Popravljeno nedelja ob 18:53 od Alex

[godlike]

pred 37 minutami je Boss napisal:

 

Če navajaš omenjeno potem ta EV jedva, da je starejši od dveh let. Pri takem težav sploh ne bi še smelo biti in je logično, da slabih izkušenj še ni vsaj kar se tiče vzdržljivosti avtomobila. Drugo vprašanje pa je ali je tako počenjanje stroškovno smiselno. Padci cen rabljenih so veliki.

 

Ampak kakorkoli... tvoj kolega se s takim početjem ne bo soočal s težavami, ki jih povzroča daljše lastništvo bo pa seveda za ta "luksuz" plačeval kar veliko ceno.

Drži. Id.3 je moral bit max. 4 leta, ko je šel od hiše. Tesla 3 nova.

Moral bi ga vprašat, koliko je izgubil na id.3.

 

Ampak to je pravi E-driver. Nima backup ICE-jev. Kar nekaj zvestih zagovornikov tukaj, jih ima. 😉

[Boss]

pred 17 minutami je Alex napisal:

A ni enako z mazdami in dizelskimi motorji? Baje, da je z njimi  en kup težav in ko jo prodajaš, jo moraš skoraj šenkati. Tako, da ni neke razlike. 

Tudi nova cx60 stane preko 50 K€, kar je občutno preveč in je tam-tam z kakim dobrim EV. Po treh letih ko boš prodal za 30 K€. 

 

Men je nekaj zanimivo, vsi EV-ji, ki se prodajajo so pod 150.000km, oziroma večina celo pod 50.000km. Ogromno jih je tam nekje okoli 20kkm. Zakaj tako hitro v prodajo če so tako superiorni? Razumem, da je par takih, ne pa da je poln avto.net takih.

 

Drugač pa ja razlika je v tem, da za EV, ki bi bil ekvivalent po velikosti in kvaliteti Mazde 6 je tam nekje v rangu 50+k€. 5 let nazaj sem novo Mazdo 6 kupil za 29k€. Po 5 letih je bila celo po Eurotaksu vredna 15k€, me resno zanima koliko dobiš za EV-ja s 75kkm prevoženih po petih letih uporabe, če si dal za novega 50k€. Dvomim, da kej bistveno več kot 15k€ ... par let nazaj je Pelko že tarnal, kako prodaja rabljenih EV-jev ne gre nikamor.

 

Je pa vedno tako, ko recimo kupuješ 5 let star avto ... jaz osebno si ne bi upal dat 25k€ za rabljen ICE, za EV-ja pa verjetno niti 15k€ ne, 10k€ mogoče, ker tolk denarja si upam reskirat za recimo še za 5 let uporabe.

[jures]

pred 9 urami je godlike napisal:

Kolega kupil testni id.3, ga po minimalni dobi, ko ga je lahko prodal (zaradi ekosklada prej ni smel) prodal in kupil Teslo 3. Še vedno zadovoljen z EV-ji.

Naj mi en da računico kako je lahko prišparal karkoli po dveh letih? Sklad gor ali dol (to se nanasa samo na odbitni ddv) 

Cena novega najcenejsi je 33.000€ - sklad je cca 28.000€

Prodal po dveh letih tak model (vir avto.net za letnik 2022) za cca 22.000€

Takoj izguba 5-6k (kljub skladu)

Kupil teslo za cca 40.000€

 

Več kot očitno gre zgolj za kupovanje z očmi, kot pri navadnih avtih

 

Pustmo teslo ampak da greš avto prodajat takoj ko lahko po dveh letih je nekaj narobe (ice ali električen), takrat se avto šele začenja amortizirat....