VODA INJECTION>>>pove?a mo?

[torstorm]

Na tujih straneh sem zasledil da na dragih na mazdah uporabljajo vodo ki jo vbrizgajo pod pritiskom nad 9 barov v sesalni del pri filtru.To naj pove?a mo? okrog 30% .Pi?e da voda mo?no ohladi vstopni zrak, zato mora? v vodo dati tudi majhen procent metanola(ali podobne snovi) da ne zmrzne in se ne nabere na stenah.

?E JE KDO ?E SLI?AL ZA KAJ PODOBNEGA NAJ NAPI?E!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Evo povzetek ?lanka :

 

Aquamist and Water injection;

 

Aquamist injects water into the inlet system somewhere under pressures up to 145 psi or 10bar. This has the affect of increasing the knock resistance of the system by removing heat ..however it also displaces oxygen molecules and so reduces the potential energy available .. hence less power. So there is a balancing trick going on .. add water to reduce the knock .. then advance timing to extract more energy from the mixture (if your spark goes off at TDC it is too late and most of the energy is wasted .. you need to do it up to 40 BTDC to allow the peak combustion pressure to occur at or just before TDC .. this maximizes the extraction of energy). Hence water injection is good for a fixed displacement supercharger (it cannot displace oxygen and pulls lots of heat out of the system ? so more oxygen in a cooler form gets into combustion chamber).. but be warned that when the water runs out.. your engine will knock and over heat very rapidly .. so it is considered a dubious system by many professional turbo installers. (I?ve got it .. maximise the knock resistance with higher boost pressures on cheap fuels while retaining stock CR for off boost response/torque at sub 2000 rpm) See here anyway; http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

 

"It seems water injection knocks the peak off the pressure spike. The pressure plateaus instead of peaking. This is if I was looking at a graph of the cyl. pressure. The burning will be extended so advancing the timing while injecting the water should be done to compensate for the slower burn. As the engine revs the water injected will stay the same while the air flow increases. In other words, the water will 'lean out' at higher rpm. Don't drown the engine by using too large of nozzle. The water can be used to increase boost or timing. I like to think of water injection as "artificial octane". If you spray the water before the throttle you must use some alcohol as an antifreeze as the throttle could freeze open. Because of the suppressed boost spike, I believe the water injection will be easier on the head gasket than without it. Also, I saw a pic of a disassembled Miata motor that used water injection. It was free of carbon! Another battle won against detonation.

 

My unit is home made and I use a 50/50 mix of water and methanol. I inject 150cc/minute of the boost fluid starting at 4 psi. The Aqua Mist should be setup downstream of the IC to allow the IC to work with some differential temps before the water/alcohol mist cools it further. You will need some alcohol because of the possibility of the throttle freezing open. Always use distilled water so minerals don't build up on the nozzle. The nozzle should be the smallest possible. I'd suggest getting a .4mm as the smallest offered is .5mm with the kit and there is no benefit in drowning the engine. I only inject 75cc/minute of water, the other half is alcohol,

a 118 octane fuel. You can (and should) advance the timing 2* to 3* for each 100cc of water injected.

 

Here's some COOL numbers I came up with from an engineering book. Gasoline, at stoich, cools the charge 40*F. Methanol, at stoich, cools the charge mixture 300*F. I think water cools 3 times what methanol does per

volume. " Tom Graham (DIY on a S/C) http://www.oregonloftbed.com/tomt

 

"Being only the person on the list with a turbo that uses water injection on a full time bases now I thought I would speak up on the subject. First I don't use just water as to reduce knock. I use water/methonal mix to reduce EGT which is the problem with any F/I engine being rotary or piston. It is not the pressure loads that destroy engines it is the thermal load that burn valves and rings. If you increase the pressure the heat must also increase, but by using a water/methonal mix my intake temps at 19 psi of boost never go 10 degrees above the outside temps and often remain cooler then the cabin temps. At 17 psi and the biggest intercooler that Corky sells for the miata the engine will ping from time to time And any pinging at all is not acceptable. At 19/20 psi of boost with water/Alcohol injection I get no pinging at all and you can feel the water kick in at 12-13 psi of boost. And you feel the water increase with an increase of torque. I don't recommend the Spearco unit; I and others have used the

Aquamist water injection with great success. Yes it would be better if I used 110 octane gas. And also while the car is running in N/A mode (most of the time on the street) the 110 octane gas is not best in the world for the engine. Further at 5-6 dollars a gallon gets a bit pricey after a while. There are other ways to decrease intake temps, but often these increase EGT. Which in turn kills your engine. Having a sliding scale for my the octane of my fuel. I have the best both a lower streetable octane with the some of the benefits of race gas. Believe or not there a lot more cars out there with water injection but they just call it an EGR valve. A major part of the exhaust gas is water used to reduced EGT. Which allows high compression engine to past emission guide lines. Which are becoming more and more common even with turbocharging!!" root root@localhost.localdomain

 

http://www.autospeed.com/C_articles/A_0578/P_1/article.html has Aussie rad spray water cooler

[mazda-mx3]

dejansko naj bi bila ta voda ful razprsena.....in ker je pac H2O ima hladilni ucinek (zato se uporablja tudi kot gasilno sredstvo), ker pa vsebuje spojina dve molekuli vodika in eno kisika , dejansko tudi dovaja kisik, ki pripomore k boljsemu izgorevanju.

 

Torej...hkrati naj bi motor lazje zadihal in naj bi se prepreceval prezgoden vzig goriva.....

 

Sej teoreticno ta zadeva drzi.

 

Ce pa jo uporabljajo, drzi tudi prakticno.

 

 

Na netu se da dobit celo nacrt vodno gnanega motorja.

S tem, da ta motor uporablja postopek elektrolize zato, da se izloci voda in ostane cist vodik.

Kot pa vemo se vodik, uporablja pri eksplozivu (vodikova bomba) in gorivu (raketno gorivo).

 

Torej tudi vodik prispeva k boljsemu izgorevanju goriva oz. postane vodik gorivo samo...v tem primeru kot aditiv.

 

Aja pa se nekaj je...voda se v cilindru uplini zaradi visoke temperature, ki je tam prisotna.....plin vode pa lahko zavzema tudi do 100x vecju volumen kot v tekocem stanju (gasilska praksa).

 

Ne vem zakaj zadeva nebi funkcionirala.

[torstorm]

saj, jaz sem mislil enako.?e gledamo da ti da to zraven dodatne HP, je dosti bolj poceni kot N2O.Imamo kakega poskusnega zaj?ka ?

[mazda-mx3]

saj, jaz sem mislil enako.?e gledamo da ti da to zraven dodatne HP, je dosti bolj poceni kot N2O.Imamo kakega poskusnega zaj?ka ?

ja po moje bi virage-u lahko to namontirali za na drage

 

Ce bi delalo, se sigurno nebi bunil!

 

[Bosti]

 

Vpra?anje je ... kaj ?e ne bi delalo? Je lahko kaka ?koda?

[torstorm]

hm ,ne vem kaka ?koda bi lahko nastala.To se po mojem mora vbrizgati to?no dolo?ene koli?ine glede na prostornino valjev,...ne vem tako mislim.

[Mazda323]

http://www.importspeed.de/shop/Frameset/Wa...inspritzung.php

[torstorm]

zanimivo, samo turbino more? prej meti.

[Boss]

Najprej sem se spomnil na tisto, da voda ?e za v ?evelj ni dobra ampak, da bi bila za v motor se mi ni niti sanjalo ampak na koncu je vseeno neka logika.

 

Nisem kemik, niti fizik a se mi vseeno zdi, da tole malce narobe razumete saj vodo ne more? kar takole enostavo razbit na kisik in vodik ?e posebej ne v motorju, kjer se voda zgolj upari.

 

Verjetno je ?tos vsega tega zgolj v tem, da je v valjih zelo velika temperatura, ki posledi?no onemogo?a vstop dovolj velike (volumensko) koli?ine zraka (plini se pri pove?anju ?irijo) in goriva. Z vodo v bistvu ohladimo notranjost valjev in pomagamo vstopu ve?je koli?ine zraka (se pravi v isti volumen valja ve? mulekul kisika). Zadeva ?e dodatno podkrepi turbo, ki itak vsi vemo da tla?i zrak v valje vendar ima tudi turbo omejen pritisk s katerim porine zrak v valje in nato je edina re?itev pove?ati koli?ino mulekul v istem pritisku in to je lahko zgolj v ohlajevanju plinov (vstopnega zraka). Na?eloma to nalogo sicer opravlja intercooler ampak preden pride zrak do valjev ni ve? tako hladen kot pri izstopu iz intercoolerja.

 

Nazaj k na?emu "vodnemu vbrizgu": in glej trik voda oziroma vodna para je shranjena pod pritiskom in ko jo spustimo iz shranjevalne posode ji naenkrat drasti?no pade tlak, kar posledi?no pomeni velik padec temperature celo do te mere, da zmrzne in s tem v trenutku pove?a mo?nost vstopa ve?je koli?ine (ve? mulekul) zraka. Seveda je tu ?e alkohol, ki prepre?i zmrzovanje na vstopnem ventilu in v kon?ni fazi je tudi sam lahko gorljiv kar pomeni, da ravno tako gori kot bencin.

 

Sicer mi ni jasno zakaj bi to zadevo uporabljal na tak na?in, ker ti to omogo?a ?e NOS ampak sigurno so ?e dodatne prednosti, da so ljudje pri?li na tak?no idejo.

 

Aja ?e nekaj... zadeva bi na?eloma morala delovati tudi, ?e nima? turbo polnilnika saj gre zgolj za fizikalne pojave.

[torstorm]

to ?e ,samo brez turbo verjetno ni nevemkako velikega u?inka.Pri NOS-u pa ?e.Samo ?e ?e kupi? NOS sistem je najbolje kupiti npr. od venom firme ma? dodaten kontroler ki ti ob nepravih trenutkih in raznih napakah avtomatsko zapre ventile da ne uni?i? motorja.Pa ?e grelec jeklenke ma? polek.Bolj?e dati malo ve?, kot potli delati generalko na motorju.

[cresh]

sam men neki ni jasen. Zakaj spu??at vodo skozi filer, saj voda za ma?ino ni dobra. Kolk vode se brizgne notr?

[Boss]

Voda je zgolj hladilno sredstvo in je vbrizgana zgolj v taki koli?ini, da hladi. Voda v motorju ni priporo?ljiva se pa zgodi ve?krat, da v motor pridejo razne neza?elene teko?ine - naprimer prebito tesnilo (hladilna teko?ina pride v izgorevalno komoro) pa ponavadi ni huj?e ?kode razen, ?e precej dolgo izpira bate pa pride do ve?je obrabe oziroma celo do zaribanja. Tudi ko je zelo vla?no ozra?je motor posesa ogromno vlage (vode) pa ni neke ?kode ampak ima? ob?asno celo ob?utek da avto bolj "gre".

 

Po moji oceni gre tudi pri tem "vodnem vbrizgu" tudi za pribli?no tak?ne koli?ine ali pa za malo ve?je kot pri zelo vla?nem vremenu.

[Misek_Chipsy]

A treba se upotrebljavati destilirana predpostavljam

Mislim da u teoriji bi islo,al prakticno nebi pokusavao.

Motor je napravljen za neko opterecenje,tlak,pritisak,HP,RPM.... ako se drasticno poverca kolicina gorivih tvari (vodik,alkohol,a k tome i hladni zrak) Poveca se HP,poveca se explozivnost,povecaju se puno tlakovi i pritisci i povecava se opterecenje...Mislim da preinake kao Nitrous i ovaj vodik pogon nije za takve stock motore,vec bi ih trebalo dosta pojacat...Al mazda puno izdrzi,znam iz iskustva,pa ako neko proba nek javi rezultate... )))))

[ReDevil]

PO eni strani se mi zdi vse skup dokaj logi?no, ker itak vsi vemo da zni?ana temperatura pomeni nekako ve?jo mo? (?e ni seveda temperatura ?e potem pod delovno)! :ne vem: